汉斯Gremmen——Yoff188bet金宝搏登真人官网y出版社

完美的绑定事件9:汉斯Gremmen
事件记录

原来的播出日期:2021年5月6日
48分钟44秒

詹妮弗Yoffy00:06

欢迎来到完美结合。我Jennifer Yoffy Yoffy出版社的创始人兼出版商在亚特兰大,格鲁吉亚。188bet金宝搏登真人官网这是一个播客,我们和艺术家谈谈他们的旅程,他们是如何在哪里,什么对与错把他们一路走来,和它们的标题下。汉斯Gremman在阿姆斯特丹是一个基于图形设计师。他在摄影、建筑、美术和设计了300多本书。他赢得了许多奖项的实验设计,其中金奖的最好的书来自世界各地的竞争。2008年,他创立了弗兰克-威廉姆斯:书籍、出版社和关注摄影相关项目和书籍。罗马出版物最近他一起创办进入输入项目空间在阿姆斯特丹的中心,探讨了边界的书。请大家欢迎汉斯Gremmen。所以,首先,我必须有像现在一分钟的时刻。 So I'm apologize in advance. But I always tell people with you as a designer, it's like, if I, if I was going to make a wedding dress, at the end of much toiling, it would be white. But it wouldn't look anything like if Vera Wang was going to make a wedding dress, because you look at that up close. And you're like, Oh, that's brilliant. And that's how I feel about your design work. And I've always felt that way since before working with you and before meeting you. And so it's super exciting to have you here. And sometimes it just, you're one of those people, I wish I could just like dump your whole brain into my whole brain and be like, Ah, that's how it's done. So, this is not going to be that. But I am going to ask you some questions. I was thinking about designing and photo books. And there are obviously a lot of different types of photo books or different types of photography, like documentary or conceptual, narrative, which do you enjoy working with most and which do you find most challenging?

汉斯Gremmen02:20

我不知道,如果它是一个风格我特别喜欢哪一个?我认为这是好,有时,如果是真的喜欢赤裸裸的纪录片,然后,很有挑战性。因为有…嗯……有时候这有点……,你会说这是一个比较容易的事情,因为有一个明确的叙述,你跟着……

詹妮弗Yoffy02:55

正确的

汉斯Gremmen02:58

这也是很多时候,尤其是如果它是如果它是一个结合文本,然后它的编辑本身如果你只是遵循叙事。但是,我不知道,这也是故事是如此的重要,而且很难添加任何东西。不是我设计的,我总是想办法增加或使事情更复杂的或艺术。但这是细线,它可以工作,我可以添加一些项目。我认为有其他设计师真正脱颖而出的跟单工作。

詹妮弗Yoffy03:46

你觉得纪录片就像更大的压力呢?因为你必须确保你是那么真实的故事。

汉斯Gremmen03:56

是的,它是,在很多情况下,但这也是有点如何定义纪录片,因为几年前,我正与安德烈斯·冈萨雷斯在美国折纸,这本身就是你可以说它是纪录片,或者至少要文档的一个特定的事件或一系列事件和想要讲述一个故事,在一个平行的世界。但这一点概念的纪录片,我想说的。

詹妮弗Yoffy04:34

正确的,那么喜欢摄影。

汉斯Gremmen04:35

确切地说,新闻摄影是我发现难以处理的东西。我真的不知道为什么只是,太具体的,我想。但休息,更多的人,你试图找到一个共享的态度一本书可以和一本书可能导致一个特定的项目。如果这种态度是共享的,或者你有相同的目标,那么什么样的材料并不重要,什么类型之类的。我认为这是或多或少的关键。所以它是更多关于它背后的人的实际产出的人。

詹妮弗Yoffy05:23

以外的工作,有一个类似的心态与你合作的人。有人,想要一个超级传统照片的书,你可能不适合他们,你要考虑不同的事情。

汉斯Gremmen05:40

这是真的。,但在第一个对话,我不总是问它,但如果我觉得有这个愿望的传统照片的书,我总是问什么人记住这类的书。同时,因为有时候如果你看看工作,和谈论它,也因为我也出版书籍,我喜欢第一个谈话非常开放,如果我想,哦,这是更好的如果是斯佩克特出版的书籍,或Mac书籍,或孔径之类的我还问,你为什么不接近他们吗?或者你为什么接近我。但总的来说,我认为它必须从两方面工作。我必须开放对艺术家的愿望和期望或摄影师。和其它的方法。我记得的第一本书Awoiska van der Molen,隔离。,她真的有这个希望的精装书,我认为我们应该做任何事情但精装书。但最后,我把它严重,为什么她就设想在精装书工作。 So then I tried to not say okay, we're going to make it a fluffy softcover. But, now it's a bit in between a hardcover and softcover. It's using like a thick cardboard, on front and back, and then with the dust jacket around it. So it's debatable if it's hardcover or softcover, but it comes from this question of her, of this wish of making it such a type of book. And then I thought, yeah, maybe there's interesting alternatives. I think that's a nice way of working together. I mean, and then in the end she was open to having an alternative hardcover. And so it's flexibility from both ways and that you have this desire to, to be both - sometimes if needed - outside your comfort zone and to think about the material in a pure way, and not with a pre assumption of what kind of thing you want. Also, I want to emphasize it is also for me; I also have a preference for specific books, but it would also be very boring. If I would make those kind of books over and over. It's really a dialogue in which you don't know the outcome. And that's also the exciting part and sometimes the scary part of the whole thing.

詹妮弗Yoffy08:48

你去艺术学校之前,你训练多年做图形生产工作。如何有一个印刷背景或如何有一个背景告知你的书设计?

汉斯Gremmen09:02

我认为,这是一个印刷背景,但也喜欢新闻和我以前实习半年,我在广告公司工作半年,我的工作是每星期一来确保在照片的暗房机器有清洁和技术上完美。(在当时,还是在模拟/数字的边缘在90年代。所以很多的广告是不发送的电子邮件打印报纸但是他们逼真地印在相纸,然后一辆自行车信使将,每天晚上,所有这些事情的报纸,他们可以使蒙太奇所有表。)就像之前的新闻媒体和非常实用。这帮了我很多,因为我变得非常熟悉整个印刷行业,我了解纸的工作方式生产水平。我的意思是,当然,这是进化无比。但从本质上说,我明白这些东西是如何工作的。这也给了我这个职位问题不时地这是如何工作的。和挑战绑定或打印机说,好吧,我知道你通常会绑定在左边,但是我们可以倒过来试试,里面?让我们看看会发生什么。 Because if you meet with the machines in a different way, if you use them in a different way, then I'm curious what the outcome will be. That's what I really like about working with with paper and printed matter. Because every now and then I also design websites, but then I feel a bit uncomfortable because I don't have the feeling that I control that medium on all levels, it's a different way of designing. And then...

詹妮弗Yoffy11:18

这个网站,你的意思是?

汉斯Gremmen11:20

是的,网站或网页设计,使应用程序或者这类的事情。这也是设计,这也是有时应该做的事情。但是我觉得我不能提供我能提供什么如果我考虑纸张和油墨,这样的事情,

詹妮弗Yoffy11:37

正确的。因为你有深入了解。做打印机和绑定感到紧张当你叫他们吗?他们喜欢,哦,不,这里是汉斯再次与他的一个疯狂的想法,你让我们把我们的机器上下颠倒呢?

汉斯Gremmen12日

嗯,不幸的是,他们最后一年每一个接一个的破产。但我没有任何关系。但它是类似与使用一个艺术家谁是喜欢的,同样适用于打印机和活页夹也是一样。我想他们会很喜欢接受挑战。但我也使用一组绑定和打印机。所以我认为对于每一个工作,我试着尽可能打造最好的球队。我认为这是真正的这个活页夹或打印机。

詹妮弗Yoffy42

…只是根据设计规格是什么,你知道,他们的能力。

汉斯Gremmen12:48

是的,有时候如果我想绑定是非常重要的,然后,有时也与你选择的打印机,因为他们也有关系。彼此之间。是的,还有,我想有一个非常开放的对话,如果需要做测试。并问他们是否认为我应该让测试他们舒适。

詹妮弗Yoffy13:17

哪些书你设计的例子都受益于印刷过程的深入了解你吗?像一些书你真的把边界在哪里?

汉斯Gremmen13:29

是的。嗯,想到的第一件事是当然,Andres冈萨雷斯的美国折纸。这有点深的知识,有时也很基本知识。但有时它还好有点天真,例如,因为这种复杂的绑定方式,这是非常复杂的。绑定的想法太复杂了。然后我发现一个超级简单,几乎办公室粘结剂和对他们来说,这是没有问题。当然,我们可以这么做。然后他们做了一些测试。所以有点平衡之间有时敢于问意想不到的或一些天真的问题。而且,一旦我这本书之间的卷印在黑纸,与反向印刷技术,与消极的白色,然后有点全彩最重要的是,每个人都理解这个想法,但是机器没有因为这种印刷机有一个眼睛检查每一张纸。 And there's also always this color bar on top of the paper and of course on black paper it didn't recognize it, or it was it was inverted. So then it's sort of stopped printing and I had to put tape on the on the machine to cheat the machine in a way. And then I had to be on press, which I was planning to do anyway. I had to be on press because normally you use this information also to calibrate the machine. But we had to do it on the spot there to say, Okay, this looks good. But I was planning to be there anyway, so that was fine.

詹妮弗Yoffy十五32

都是打印机和绑定与漂亮的地方,你工作了吗?他们都在荷兰吗?

汉斯Gremmen15:36

我更喜欢这个。是的,这不是这不是给定的。我的意思是,我打开。但是,我喜欢,因为我感觉我控制过程。

詹妮弗Yoffy15:46

还有这样的好处在那里你知道吗?我把一切与美国,几乎所有的东西,海外印刷。

汉斯Gremmen15:54

是的,不,我也很喜欢,。这也是这些旅行,也挺不错。当然,我的意思是,现在是不同的。我必须在单独的房间,安全,和所有这些事情。但在正常情况下,我真的,真的很喜欢这样的旅行到一个新闻,有一天,吃的食物从一个加油站。都是经验的一部分。这是超级好。我的意思是,我真的很喜欢它。而且,你有很多的时间在印刷,因为打印一张,然后打印第二个表需要一个小时。然后如果你如果你说第一个表是好的,你必须等待基本上,大量的时间一个小时,然后散步真好。 And then I always go to the trash and see what they were printing on other books or, or these kind of things, and that it always gives you ideas or you have time to talk with a printer, about totally different things. But it's sort of, it's really nice to plug into that world in that way. On the indirect level, you always benefit, I think, from being on press for that specific job, it is important. But it also helps other jobs, future jobs are passed...

詹妮弗Yoffy十七12

火花的想法,和看到的材料,也许。

汉斯Gremmen17:16

当然,看报纸,看材料。而且,我曾经发现当我们转载一本书,或打印一本书,这个新闻是印刷厂,艺术书籍,然后在不同的区域。粮食生产标签,标签这罐,从豆类、或汤或这类的事情。他们使用纸,我已经寻找这些罐头,但它是非常具体的。但它与艺术世界无关。但他们使用纸,我正在寻找,通常,当我想做一个艺术书的书皮或插入。他们总是告诉我这是不可能的。这不是可用的。这并不是可用的标准美术书世界但在另一个领域。这是这是一个很好的发现,因为你会说,哦,但是如果你用这堆纸,然后你把它这方面,我认为我们可以我们可以让它工作。 And in the end, it was a sort of failed experiment. But...

詹妮弗Yoffy18:29

哦,是没有成功吗?

汉斯Gremmen18:31

是的,它叫的。但是,真的很喜欢我发现一个不同的世界。我可以用它来标签或其他东西,但是,有一件事我想要的,它没有工作。但无论如何,很高兴做连接,是否可以工作。

詹妮弗Yoffy18:54

所以你为什么从生产到设计?和这本书形式总是你的注意力,你的激情吗?

汉斯Gremmen19:03

嗯,这是一次长途旅行。起初我认为我做了四年的实践,实践教育。然后在我的最后一年,我的一个老师告诉我你有没有考虑去艺术学校吗?但是我真的不喜欢…

詹妮弗Yoffy十九21

我希望他有四年前说了什么?

汉斯Gremmen19:24

不,我认为在真正受过教育的一个超级实用水平,我非常渴望更多的概念思想方法因为没有空间,在那所学校。和拥有这些知识的四年里,我知道所有的程序,他们怎样Illustrator, Photoshop,夸克表达是在那些日子里,仍然是标准,目前InDesign,但是我真正理解所有这些技术部分我可以保存我所有的时间跳过这些课程在艺术学校,和只关注完全不同概念和与别人谈论他们的工作。我在艺术学校,我想做的一切。我和照片应用作为一个摄影师。但后来我想做雕刻。我做雕塑,然后我做电影,我觉得很有趣。但我有点失去了一年以后选择什么,因为第一年是基本的,你没有选择。一切都在一起。所以你做画,你所做的一切。但是后来我发现在今年年底,我最喜欢的是跟别人谈论他们的想法。 And then I was reacting to what they were saying, they were making paintings and I would say Oh, that's quite nice. And yeah, maybe if I reconstruct this, it sounds like a super annoying person who walks into your life. Did you ever consider painting in other colors?

詹妮弗Yoffy21:12

你可能会说,这很好,但我觉得可以更好。(笑)

汉斯Gremmen21:16

它还能更小吗?和三角形?但你知道,这在某种程度上我觉得,嗯....所以很难重建到底如何了。但这也与人的交互部分,因为我发现我更强的反应比别人的内容提出自己的想法简单。是有区别的启动和反应。在我的例子中,很多时候,它始于反应,然后启动的想法,这是自然反应也。

詹妮弗Yoffy21:58

这很有趣,因为我想问你关于合作,它似乎是一个相当大的关注。这是我的一个真正高价值的东西。所以这是主要驱动你的兴趣合作吗?我的意思是,你喜欢你发布的印记,你在输入输入,很明显,所有的你设计的项目,所以,来回,驱动你,燃料的想法吗?

汉斯Gremmen22:28

肯定。最后,这也是为什么我选择了平面设计,因为我认为这就像一个大熔炉对这些学科的人。然后我觉得我可以添加一些。这就是我选择了排版,然后我做了一个研究生课程,艺术学校之后,然后我就开始作为一名自由设计师。在一开始,我做很多工作,是建筑基础或建筑师使他们的投资组合,使建筑书籍出版商。然后突然间,我有一个问题从我的一个朋友从艺术学校,曾与摄影师一个集体,他们想做一个杂志。我真的很高兴,因为我从来没有接触过摄影。但是它必须是好的,因为之前主要是排版我在做什么。所以我非常兴奋转变,然后我发现我真的有这种亲和力的媒介。所以,是的,这是如何开始。 But it's definitely the interaction but also that's why I still like to do not only work for Fw books, but also I really enjoy doing commissioned work as well. Simply because it's the same in a different way of thinking. I like it because it's nice to have control on the one hand, like with Fw books, I'm more in control of all productions and these kind of things. But it's also really nice to just focus on edit and a design, and then hand it over to somebody else who is then taking care of production, or making a signage system for a museum. And also I really enjoy making a typeface if it's needed for a specific exhibition. I like this diversity of things.

詹妮弗Yoffy24:48

你和我合作在一本书,即将或早期阶段,第二个和你谈论当你看到工作的重要性第一次,像第一次看没有上下文。所以我在思考,我不知道有多少....背后的故事首先,观众不知道背后的故事。我不知道你知道多少关于我的一面。但是,嗯,所以我在巴黎遇到了Nikonowicz孔径聚会照片。他本科时获得了光圈组合奖。所以他在那儿,他可能是绝对最年轻的人。然后他看起来最年轻的人在,15年,因为他看起来像14。我遇见了他。和我是道格·杜波依斯,他是一个朋友,和谁,在很多场合大力赞扬了他的和你的工作经验,在我十七岁的最后一天。 And which is a book that I love. So I had that kind of on one side of my head, and then I meet Drew, and we're just chatting and later on, I looked up his work and was like, This is so strong. And I was just starting Yoffy Press. So he and I spoke for a long time, at least a year before we decided we would work together. And we decided that the design was going to be really important with this book. So I thought of you immediately. And I think maybe Doug did an email intro and I'm telling him back and forth, like how do you work? Can I hire you? And then I was like, okay, so let me just tell you the name of the artist, so you can look and see if you're even interested. And you wrote back right away and said that you just been to Foam, Unseen in Amsterdam, and that for days, you looked at all of this work, and you came back with one name in your notebook, and it was Drew Nikonowicz. So back to that first look. What was your impression of Drew's work? And what did writing his name down in the notebook mean?

汉斯Gremmen27:06

是的,它仍然是如果你重建它,这是我所有的回忆。我的意思是,这仍然是对我来说,这有点令人难以置信的故事,它也发生这样的时机明智,首先确实,我们探索,一般如何一起工作,然后你提到他的名字。然后几天,在那之前,我看到他在孔径站在看不见的工作。为什么我写了他的名字,如果我参加这些活动,他们总是感到无所适从。我走路很快,所以我很多时候,然后我做下一轮又一轮。如果我很好奇,如果我觉得有吸引力,或者我想知道更多关于什么是有趣的,然后我把名字写下来,因为我不想,我的意思是,你可以谷歌的事情,但是我想推迟它,把我的时间研究它。多去了解它,你看到的工作,然后你有想法在你的脑海中,它是从哪里来的。但是我不会读,我觉得它更需要检查我的直觉。是的,有东西在他的作品中或在使用中、在他看来还反思中,我认识到我在想,时不时我如何看待摄影和摄影的作用和与景观的关系。有某种相似或熟悉的看东西,但是对我来说非常新鲜和新方法。 So that's why I wrote his name down. And then there was this crazy fortunate event that you already had plans working with him. And then we decided to share and co-publish it, which I'm still happy with that we did that. Yeah, I think Drew has this this amazing quality of looking at things and investigating things in a theoretical way, which is at the same time, aesthetical way and reflecting way and it's like a it's a loop of things. And always you're not really sure what you're looking at and in a very intriguing way. So that's very appealing.

詹妮弗Yoffy29:49

当你和画一起工作,他走过来,你们花了几天,现在这不是一个选择。所以我们也致力于乔恩·霍法的书,这是幸福,所以这不是一个选择。我想没有一个选择你在过去的一年。有COVID难度或者你意识到你可以同样有效,网上与艺术家合作?

汉斯Gremmen30:14

是的,当然。从这个意义上说。我不会说这使它更容易。但是我已经非常熟悉与人们进行远程工作。第一本书我和光圈,与川内高良健吾,她在日本,我在阿姆斯特丹,莱斯利·马丁从光圈在纽约。这是三个时区,不可能总是有人睡觉,所以很难甚至一起打Skype电话。但没关系,我们所做的一切与邮件完成,然后它开始在你的利益工作,因为如果我写一个邮件,然后在我的一天,莱斯利它捡起来夹在她的一天,然后Rico Komachi它捡起来夹在她的一天,然后在一个很好的方式,然后就像加速。如果我打开邮件一天后比它已经……

詹妮弗Yoffy31:14

对了,它已经经历了电路。

汉斯Gremmen31:17

对的,世界各地的非停止。所以肯定与Skype和变焦的事情,我,此刻经过一年的COVID完全受够了,但是,呃…

詹妮弗Yoffy31:32

我受够了,但是我仍然在沉默,像一个白痴。我说,我们真的应该下来了。

汉斯Gremmen31:40

不,但这是真的,特别是Skype,我喜欢,因为它也很容易共享屏幕当然与放大。然后我分享我的屏幕,我睁开InDesign文件,然后我们就说话方式通过InDesign文件。我也现在与那些来自鹿特丹,坐火车一个小时。当然,现在它仍然是一个锁定的情况。然而,这让我意识到,如果这个鹿特丹和我一起工作的人会坐火车,他将离开在早上9点,他是一个10点在阿姆斯特丹,他是10:30在我的工作室,我们有一个咖啡11点我们开始工作,也许有一两个小时,然后他回去,很好。花费他一整天。现在我和他在9点钟。9:45分,做完了。我有一天,他已经整整一天。所以在这个意义上,它肯定是更高效的工作。 And it's not inferior to the one way over to the other way. I think would be true. It was it was super nice that he that he visited also because then we could of course talk about paper and these kind of things and about tactility and the technical part of the design process, it's more difficult to do online. That's more sending back and forth now with prints and FedExing things. So it's not a handicap at all, actually, this whole COVID situation and all the limitations. It's a bit less fun, in that sense. That's fine. Yeah, I mean, but it's okay. I don't feel that limited or that I designed differently or collaborate differently. Still with people also, I think Andres I met for the first time during Paris Photo when the book was finished. There was a possibility to do things together. But we did everything remotely and it's okay. Yeah.

詹妮弗Yoffy33:49

所以你知道,我问这个问题,每个人都和我预备你,对,是的。好了,因为它已经把每个人。所以我说,我们……好的,我问这个问题,每个人都是最好的职业决定你做过什么?

汉斯Gremmen34:06

是的,它是,你准备我但是,它的一个问题。肯定是容易的希腊,而弗兰克-威廉姆斯书开始。也有作为,作为操场或者我不想听起来毫无新意,但也有点像一个家庭。就像越来越多的人,喜欢的和很多人与他们合作后我也叫我的朋友。你有一种特别的感情。和我也喜欢负责不仅设计也……,然后,就像所有这些箱子,把它们无处不在,努力工作,去集市。看到光谱的一部分。而且输入输入,该项目在我的工作室空间,我给丽贝卡•威廉姆斯从荷马出版物。相同的能量,使一本书,它不仅仅是设计,有很多零件的生产,然后分配部分,设计、概念化,而且研究其他人在做什么。 So, the whole thing I liked very much. And then as a counter, the best decision was also I think, Leslie Martin was one of the first publishers who asked me... I was doing Fw Books for quite a while, making my books with people, and then she approached me, because she talked with Rinko Kawauchi, if I wanted to collaborate with them. In the beginning, I was a bit hesitant because then I, I felt a bit like, oh, but then what does it mean? And I sensed that I was immediately, I mean, I knew the work of Rinko and I loved it. And I of course I knew Aperture. And there was very, yeah, so it was like, ideal situation. But my doubt was a bit in that, how does this work? Because what I normally do, is I basically can do whatever I like together with the artist involved. But if there's a like other imprint, which of course hold interest in the project as well. I was sort of almost trapped in a sort of self censorship that I thought, Oh, then I have to make a safe book, then I have to make a book, which is not experimental, because then it maybe doesn't sell and I felt very responsible for that. So I was doubting a bit if I should do it. But I was really, really happy that I did it. And then I thought in the beginning, I came up with an idea, which was quite experimental, with printing reversed the images in negative colors on the inside of paper. And you can see....

詹妮弗Yoffy37:11

我沉迷于这本书。

汉斯Gremmen37:13

但我从没想过他们会同意,说实话。但我想,我想把它,因为我认为这是一个好主意。至少这是一个起点。同时,看到我的立场是什么?你想要我什么?我能为你做什么?然后立即高良健吾和莱斯利都完全地接受它,没有任何保留。这真的是一个重要的时刻,因为我想,好吧,这是最大的限制,你可以限制自己。

詹妮弗Yoffy37:56

你可以做一个假设....

汉斯Gremmen37:58

这是一个假设认为他们想要的书。然后你开始做这样的书。然后你在某种程度上失去自我。而且,对我来说这是一个重要的点。

詹妮弗Yoffy38:11

你意识到你可以真实的作为一个设计师,即使你不工作在自己的帝国。

汉斯Gremmen38:17

然后它真的变得更好。如果我回头看第一个提案,它甚至有更多一些疯狂的过程中。莱斯利和高良健吾很鼓励我真的推到最大。

詹妮弗Yoffy38:41

太棒了。所以你能谈谈你迷了路,你从中学到了什么?

汉斯Gremmen38:48

是的,有时候你忽略你的本能。因为有时我得到这个问题如果我想工作在一个项目,然后工作是伟大的。然后你开始工作,你觉得态度不一致,或者你不喜欢的。嗯,基本上,一本好书的定义是非常主观的。和从绑定到打印机或艺术家或设计师。他们都有自己的定义。在一开始,我有点幼稚,认为如果你把一本好书,没关系。但有时人们正在寻找一种不同的好书。然后我有点困在自己的思想和理解别人的意愿。然后你最终的弗兰肯斯坦。 And you know it when you're making it, but then at a certain point, you spent one and a half years working on it, and the other person as well. And then you think Yeah, what, what, what's now best to do? Should we just cancel it? Because it's sort of not going anywhere? But it's very painful for everybody involved. But I had to do that once or twice. Or maybe? Well, yeah, well, a few times.

詹妮弗Yoffy40:35

你刚才说,这不是和停止工作吗?

40:38

是的

詹妮弗Yoffy40:39

而不仅仅是把事情你知道行不通。

汉斯Gremmen40:42

是的,我这么做也过去,几次。我知道,这是非常令人沮丧的生活使它非常引人注目,因为它的存在,一旦你面对它。每一刻你仔细想想,它的存在。我认为,我从中学到的教训是,直到真正完成的东西,都应该放在桌子上,应该在最极端的方式。你应该能够谈论它。也在我身上发生过一次,我正在做一个设计的书,然后是艺术家参与改变了出版商。所以我做了一个书了两年,然后他们改变了出版商,但出版商设计师有自己的房子。所以我被踢出的,但我明白,我没有生气。我的意思是,这是一个有些愚蠢的我的时间。但事情就是这样。 And yeah, I think it's important to have always this open discussion. And also to have these things in hindsight to think Yeah, I thought that would be a good idea. But I think it can be sometimes frustrating with people if you work in this way. Because it can feel that it's out of the blue that you think I'm not sure if this is working. But yeah, I try to be as honest and open about it as possible. But it can be painful every now and then. But I refuse to make something that I don't really agree to, I can't, I cannot do it. Because then I get lack of interest and then I think oh whatever, I will send the invoice and have fun with the whole thing. That's making me feel really bad if I do this kind of things.

詹妮弗Yoffy42:38

正确的。现在,你知道后果。

汉斯Gremmen42:40

完全正确。我总是尝试,如果发生这种情况,它听起来就像每天发生的。但它确实发生在过去的15年里,只有几次或20。我试着生产,你链接的人其他你认为他们是伟大的人,并把他们介绍给他们支持。

詹妮弗Yoffy43:03

是的。那么最后一个问题。嗯,你设计,我看到了300多本书,…

汉斯Gremmen43:11

我停止计数。我不知道,我可以,但是我不知道。

詹妮弗Yoffy43:17

你已经设计了很多书,其中一些还撰写或编辑,您创建了一个长篇电影对美国风景。你有一个出版公司和项目的空间,你获奖。你觉得你已经完成了所有书中最初开始做空间或还有很多你想做的还是两个?

汉斯Gremmen43:49

嗯,不同层次的问题我可以回答,因为我是非常满意的事情怎么样了。特别是希望做一个项目有项目空间像输入输入。绝对是在我的列表,这很好。但它只如果你有一个好地方,是理想的情况。我们可以这样做至少5年看,看看它的工作原理。这是真正伟大的。还有什么,我现在期待吗?我希望能保持如此幸运遇见有趣的人有趣的问题,因为这就是我所需要的东西。当然,我自己也可以影响它,但我不得不……

詹妮弗Yoffy44:49

燃料你的创造力和…

汉斯Gremmen44:51

是的,同时也继续增长。我仍然认为这是一个成长的事情。在这个意义上有很大的动态和实践。但是,是的,我没有像一个愿望清单的意义上说,我把事情。我真的相信一种自然的方式的演变,我只是高兴,还有这种混合的委托工作和自我启动工作。也许有,有一件事,这也是好大声说出来,让它更可能给我。对母亲路你提到这部电影,我做了一些其他事情美国景观。这有点像顽皮的研究,一个案例研究中,理论的东西,实验,就像小实验在美国景观的感知。我认为,和三、四年,甚至更长时间,我害怕。我把这个文件夹; like a growing book with self written texts and small experiments. And it's, I think it's already 500 pages. I'm not sure if I will ever finish it or that if that's the purpose, but maybe that's, that's something which in the end, I would regret if I wouldn't finish that one book.

詹妮弗Yoffy46:41

或者做些什么。

汉斯Gremmen46:42

是的,做点什么。我用它时不时做小事情。做一些小的章节,视觉,就像电影或喜欢,看着点,另一个出版物或物体在镜子,时不时我使用它。但总体,几乎一种百科全书式的体积。这就好了,如果能在那里。是的。但是我必须推动自己。所以总是有日常生活,别人的接管和最后期限。但这将是一个好去处。

詹妮弗Yoffy47:20

是的,我想看到它。

汉斯Gremmen47:21

是的,我也是。

詹妮弗Yoffy47:25

我真的很感激你这样做,我今天是美好的,我信息和有趣的和鼓舞人心的。

汉斯Gremmen47:34

好了,非常感谢。这是超级漂亮的邀请。我是最高兴和你谈谈。五小时的差别。通常情况下,总是6。